Exclusive Thomas Walkup to Eurodevotion: Olympiacos basketball is about system and philosophy
The frontrunner to DPOY Thomas Walkup words to Eurodevotion
So nice and friendly off the court, as he's annoying and surly for his opponents on the court. This is Thomas Walkup, we've had the privilege to meet him in the Assago, the evening before Olympiacos face Olimpia.
In this double handed interview, me and our director Alberto Marzagalia have conversed with Walkup about juicy issues, starting with curiosities about his time in college, going all trough his path in European basketball, to arrive to the current season. His defensive approach, the genius of Bartzokas and Saras, and a special bet that we tried to propose him for the future of the season are the the highlights of a great conversation.
J: In an old interview from the time of the college you talked about the scolarship you were offered, and you said "There was a reason I didn’t have any other scholarship offers besides those two (Stephen F Austin and Houston Baptist), I wasn’t any good." It was 2012, how good do you feel right now and what changed in Thomas Walkup compared to you first version?
"I won't say I was joking, but I think at that time was where I was as a basketball player. I didn't deserve offers from Duke, North Carolina or UCLA, but this school believed in me (Sfa, ed) and there I become very confident, because I start really focusing and working on my game, kind with an obsession. I had one coach there, Stephen Gentry, and we were in the gym everyday all the day, from the morning to the evening. We match each other, he wanted to help me to get better just as much as I wanted to get better. I owe a lot of my career to him."
J: Not many knows that during the college you were a kind of forward, with even more weight than now, but a similar ball handling skills, so that Jonathan Givony for DraftExpress defined you in 2016 "a Southland version of Draymond Green". How did this transition happen and what have you brought in your point-guard playstyle from your past version?
"The biggest similarity is that, before and now, I just fill in the spot the team need me to fill in. I think that I play more with my mind, with my instincts, more than anything, so that allows me to fit to certain spots like that. At that time I was playing forward, but still playing at the perimeter a lot, so it wasn't the usual four-man you see in basketball.
Along with the coaches I played for and how I worked on my game, those two things combined, I made progress. I played for Sarunas and playing under him as a point-guard you're learning constantly, all around the clock. Even when you're home, you feel like you're still hearing his voice!"
A: You started your European career in Germany with Ludwigsburg, then you upgraded to Zalgiris and then you made another step forward signing for Oly. How this environment step-by-step helped you in developing your game and in having the right connection with European basketball?
"I think if you go, let's say, from Ludwigsburg to Real Madrid, expectations are very high. With no Euroleague experience you're expected to win the Euroleague right away, maybe you wouldn't be ready for that at that time.
I'm very thankful for my journey, playing for John Patrick in Ludwigsburg - I'm still in touch with him today -, I learned a lot from him, in my transition from the States to European basketball. And then also going from my first Euroleague team, Zalgiris, it's like a family there. I didn't play well right away, they welcomed me with open arms and they believed in me and gave me the confidence I need to play at EL level.
I wouldn't be here without those first two steps and I believe if you're gonna get better each and every day, each and every week, each and every year, at the end of your career you're gonna like your way. You don't need to take a big step right away, but as long as you take forward and progressive steps, you're gonna like where you are."
A: You are one of the most important and impacting player of the whole EL even without averaging a double figure scoring. You look at the usual stats and everything looks so normal, then you go to advanced stats and you find how great is what you bring to the team. This is something similar for most of your teammates: as an example the Offensive and Defensive rating of your guards ON and OFF the court is mostly the same and so positive. You have to explain me the secret…
"This is because of coach Bartzokas and his system, we pride ourselves to not depending on one player, we're very balanced, not just in our roster, but in our playstyle. We're not just giving the ball to somebody and expected him to do something. A very big compliment to coach Bartzokas, the staff and how they coach it and they teach it, because every coach in the world wants to play with the ball that's moving one side to an other, but I think they've done the proper way teaching that. It's chemistry, but it's their job too, not just by luck. It's the system and the philosophy."
A: It’s a kind of weird stats but you are part of the most used unit of the league: with Isaiah, Kostas Papanikolau, Sasha and Moustapha you played more than 193 minutes, while the second one (Calathes, Wilbekin, Hayes-Davis, Pierre and Motley in Fenerbahçe) played only 98’, almost half of your unit. Can you tell us about this special chemistry?
"It's funny because it's definitely not traditional, the first group out there for the first ten minutes... I don't know the advance stats, but I think that our numbers are pretty good together, we have very good chemistry. There's such thing as overcoaching, that leads to switch the lineup every single day, because of one little detail, but our coaches believe that, even taking away some of those details, putting the same group out there, it's more important to play with rhythm and within a comfortable zone, so that you perform better. I think that numbers backed us up!"
A: Going back to Saras (Jasikevicius), he always praises your game saying “You cannot imagine how many positive things Thomas does on the court, and most of those things you can't see them”. You played for two masterminds like Bartzokas and Jasi, just mention us two differences between them.
"It's not easy, because they're both genius in complete different ways. The first will pinpoint something and will figure out how to get the small advantage on every single play, he looks at the defense and it's like he sees the game in slow motion, he's extreme detail-built.
He's creating the advantage on the moment, while the way that Bartzokas does it it's trough his philosophy and trough his system, it's more about the way that we move the ball with that speed, how we pass, it's something that we drill every single day, so that when the game starts it's with flow, it doesn't have to be every single possession that we target this or that point of the defense."
A: Last year defeat in the F4, I use the words of your Coach, “was mostly about the lack of experience of many guys of the roster”. Ok, then we can say that without Micic you were in the Final, but that's basketball. My opinion is that loss was accepted in the best and most constructive way...
"I couldn't pick out anything positive at that time, it's always like that. We're first place now, but we have not idea if we'll be in Final Four this year or next year, or ever again. Go there is an opportunity, but for sure that loss motivated us, I can think back to the summer and how I felt with that in my mind, constantly, every time I was in the gym.
Looking back, comparing how I feel this year with the upcoming schedule to how I felt last year, I perceive a completely different feeling to our team, because of that experience. As difficult as that was, it gave us much much needed experience."
A: Oly plays the best basketball of the league on both ends of the court, Sasha is definitely the MVP of the competition, things perfect right now. Maybe the only problem is that you're 50 days away from Playoff and 80 days hopefully away from Kaunas... How do you live this kind of transition period?
"I don't think that there is such thing as peaking too early or peaking at the right time, or whatever. In August, thinking to win the 'triple crown' was a lot, it was too much, but taking it day-by-day was the right thing and it is now too.
I don't think we're at our ceiling yet, I think we can continue to play a better basketball. We'll see where we're at in 50 days, or in 80 days... I don't think that we're worried to be in form now, because everybody is worried in getting better and better every single day. I get your point, but I think that there's a lot of room to grow."
A: Watching your games, it's so difficult to find that room for improvement, where do you see it?
"I would say 40 minutes focus, you can pick up the game with Asvel, Red Star, Valencia at home, and Valencia away this past week. If you depend on 20 minutes of basketball, eventually you get beat."
J: Alberto talked about Olympiacos defense, since you're, let's say, the first line of the first line of this system, and you are called to play defense with big men so different as Fall, Black or Bolomboy, which is your approach and how do you face your direct opponent that's crossing the halfcourt considering the guys you have in the paint?
"Especially with Moustapha Fall, it's a dream with him, because he's not just a shot-blocker, he's one of the best switch-on guys. He forces a lot of guys to turnovers and block their shot...
I know that I can get close to my man, pressure him, with Moustapha having my back. He gives you defensive confidence, you don't gain confidence just shooting the basketball. I think the defensive confidence that guys like him, Papanikolau, Vezenkov (amazing defender when he tunes in) give to me is tremendous."
J: And so what do you change, if you change something, when you know to have behind Fall or Bolomboy, or Black?
"It depends on the defense, but I know that it doesn't matter if I get beat, if it happens we can switch, and I know that I can risk more than the normal. With the units that we have, we always have the defensive rhythm together, Moustapha and I in particular. I wouldn't say that there's something tactical that I change, but there's a level of comfort that comes in me guarding the ball, knowing they're behind me."
A: You are in the conversation for the DPOY, my opinion is that you deserve that award: which are the two guys you feel like the most competitive for that achievement? Maybe you can tell us something about Alessandro Pajola, the Virtus guy that is doing so great in defense as a rookie...
"I'm a big fan of Hayes, from Zalgiris, he's great and then Pajola, we played against him twice, is a great defender. We've a lot of similarities, our playstyle, we're also big, phsycal guards, have good hands, get over screens and I think he has great feet. He's really good defensive instincts, not only the desire to defend."
J: Always talking about your defense, I want to play a sort of game, I mention three Euroleague guards, and you have to say what would you do in 1-on-1 defense (on and off the ball either) to stop them. First one, Milos Teodosic.
"Make him drive left."
J: Markus Howard?
"Make him drive left. (laughs, ed) You know these guys you're not gonna stop them every time, but you have to take away their biggest strength. Their biggest strength will be driving right, so you're closing up to take away the shot, you're on the right hand so they can't drive right and, if they go left, we'll se what happens...
Also it is how I would look to every single player, but I think that for guys that are so talented you have to take away their top skill, then maybe you can try to take away their second and so on. But these players are so good because even if you're trying to stop their strength, they're still able to do it."
J: The third was Micic.
"I wouldn't be so close as I would be with Howard, but I'll make him drive left because if you let him go right, he's so good!"
J: We have a bet for you! During college, you're really famous for that "Lumberjack version" of your beard that was unshaved for almost a year, so if you win the Final Four you have to do the same!
"Our doctor told me not to shave, one day just walked in and say "don't shave", so the beard's already longer now..."
A: I will be in the Final Four, I will check what you're going to do!
"If I still have it, we win it, and people want me to cut it, I'll cut it. And if I'll shave it I'll let you know guys!".